What’s changing at the BABCP, and what does it mean for you? Your monthly instalment of Members Matters brings updates on digital developments, fresh guidance on registration and accreditation, and a spotlight on our WOMGEND SIG with your hosts: Rachel Handley, Helen Macdonald and Steph Curnow.
In This Episode:
- BABCP News & Updates
Rachel and Helen bring you the latest on the launch of the new BABCP website and member database and introduce the new registration route for Mental Health & Wellbeing Practitioners (MHWPs).
Introducing…
Chief Accreditation Officer and Registrar Rebecca Light joins Rachel to talk about the key differences between registration and accreditation, the evolving role of accreditation, and what she does for her mental health while balancing all of her roles.
Spotlight on, Gender Equality and Men’s Mental Health
Steph Curnow welcomes Amy Beddows and Mat Wilding to introduce the Women’s Equality and Gender Diversity Special Interest Group (WOMGEND). They explain the group’s work, dealing with gender-based violence, and why they’re encouraging men to show up for gender equality matters in CBT.
Ask Me Anything
Another of your questions from the mailbag, Senior Clinical Advisor Helen Macdonald, explains what kinds of member queries fall outside BABCP’s remit and where to find the support you need.
Podcast Picks, there’s lots more to hear from the BABCP. Here are the podcasts you can listen to this month:
Let’s Talk About CBT – Accessing CBT in ‘low data’ areas of the world
Practice Matters – Getting to the heart of CBT with Dr Judith Beck.
Links and resources:
Join a Special Interest Group (SIG): https://babcp.com/Membership/Special-Interest-Groups
Find a CBT supervisor on the CBT Register: https://www.cbtregisteruk.com
More information on our Journals Special Issues can be found here
Check out our other podcasts Let’s Talk About CBT, Practice Matters, and Research Matters in our podcasts hub: https://babcp.com/Podcasts
Contact us: podcasts@babcp.com
New episodes every month – subscribe now so you don’t miss out.
Transcript:
Rachel: Hello and welcome to Members Matters, the podcast made exclusively for BABCP members. I’m Rachel Handley, and I’m here with my co-host Helen Macdonald. Hello, everybody. Hi. Unfortunately, Steph can’t be here today with us, but we’ll catch up with her later in our spotlight on section where she caught up with the Woman’s Equality and Gender Diversity Special Interest Group.
In each episode of this podcast, we will bring you the latest news and information from members, and you’ll get to meet some of the key figures in the organization in our introducing section, and you’ll get the chance to get involved too. So in Ask Me Anything where our Senior Clinical Advisor, Helen Macdonald, my lovely co-host is going to be taking any question, any question you’d like to ask.
So Helen, what’s been going on in the world of BABCP?
Helen: Well, it’s been particularly busy recently as we’ve been preparing to launch the new website and database, which has been a massive undertaking and work in progress. I mean, as with anything, with any project that big, there have been some glitches and tweaks that we’ve needed to make. But it’s up and running and we’ve got planned phases for introducing all the new functions for it. Also, as we are speaking together now, just to say that you’ll hear some more about the new registration for Mental Health Wellbeing Practitioners, which was launched on Monday, the 30th of June, which is also really exciting.
Rachel: So, lots of new things, lots of changes. And the great news is, Helen, that as we record this, you know, a few weeks before it goes out, the website will be running completely smoothly by the time we’re transmitting.
Helen: I really hope so. But if you find anything in there that isn’t working smoothly, do let us know because we’re working really hard behind the scenes to fix anything that isn’t quite how we anticipated it working.
Rachel: Fantastic. Well, shall we get into the podcast then?
Helen: So first we have our Chief Accreditation Officer and registrar, Rebecca Light speaking with you. Rachel, tell me what was the most interesting thing that you discovered when you were speaking with Rebecca?
Rachel: Well, there’s so much that she does and covers, which she’ll talk about in the interview. But what really blew me away was just the size of the challenge really. We’ve got 12,000 accredited and 4,000 registered members in the BABCP now, and that really blew me away. If you’re in any doubt as to what it means to be accredited, registered, or just an ordinary member of the BABCP listen on because Rebecca’s got it all in hand.
Helen: Fantastic.
Rachel: Today in our introducing corner, I’m really happy to be speaking to Rebecca, light Chief Accreditation Officer and Registrar, and thinking a little bit about her role, accreditation and registration, and the BABCP. Rebecca, welcome.
Rebecca Light: Good morning, Rachel.
Rachel: It’s fab to have you here, and I know you a little bit because I do a bit of work with the course accreditation committee, but the BABCP is so huge now, it’s really easy for folk to feel quite remote from those in the senior team. So I wonder if before we talk about the role, if you could tell us a little bit about yourself as a person. So, you know, if someone were to sidle up to you at a BABCP conference or workshop, what are the topics they would talk to you about? What are the things you’d like to do, your interests and passions outside of work?
Rebecca Light: So firstly, I’m a mum. A mum of two children which keeps you very busy, as other mums will know. My husband works in farming. So again, really busy job. And it means that we live really rurally. We’re surrounded by kind of countryside. Countryside pursuits, so we’ve got three dogs and three horses. So love spending time outside and yeah, that’s our main thing really is just time outside and lots of fun activities in the countryside.
Rachel: That’s genuinely as remote working then?
Rebecca Light: Absolutely, yes. Yeah, really remote.
Rachel: And being my mum myself, I would ask you what you do in your spare time cause that probably means there isn’t, there isn’t any when you’ve got two little ones?
Rebecca Light: endless runs to cricket and ballet and all those fun things.
Rachel: And thinking a bit about your role, I mean, you’ve got to love any role where the title begins with Chief, but what does it actually mean to be chief Accreditation Officer and registrar? What’s the purpose of the role?
Rebecca Light: It’s funny, we have lots of jokes about the title in the team. cause we all think it’s, it’s quite a funny title, but essentially, I guess there’s lots of different processes involved in accreditation and registration now. So I think really the role is about overseeing all of those processes and making sure that they’re fair and thorough and stringent and help protect the public whilst also helping support our members with their professional careers.
Rebecca Light: We’ve got lots of members, as you mentioned, so we’re. 12,000, nearly 12,000 accredited members now. And over 4,000 registered members. So quite a lot of different processes involved in that.
Rachel: And I imagine lots of different issues for different individuals coming up when you’re dealing with that many people.
Rebecca Light: Definitely. And also, you know, for the courses that people go through, that is now one of our biggest paths to accreditation is through those accredited courses, which you’ll know well about. So lots of different issues that come up through the courses and through the individuals that are then gaining accreditation or registration.
Rachel: So it’s a big job. It involves a lot of, and there’s a big scope there with a lot of people, a lot of issues. But what does that look like day to day in terms of your role?
Rebecca Light: Well, most days you’ll find me wading my way through lots of emails from various different departments in the organization or from external people. I often get involved with emails where the team of accreditation is and officers or registration is, and officers have tried to kind of figure out what the answer is and because it is complicated sometimes it’s helpful to have one pair of eyes that has that consistent view across all of them. So often I’ll end up being the sort of last port of call for those kind of questions. Again, with the committees, the two main committees I’m involved with supporting are the Course Accreditation Committee and the Practitioner Accreditation and Registration Committee known as PARC, and then also the Standards and Ethics committee as well.
Rebecca Light: So where they have oversight over dealing with the complaints, when things go a bit wrong for individuals, therapists and members of the public where something’s not quite gone how it was intended, and also then looking forward strategically for accreditation and registration. There’s lots of the work that’s thinking about the future and making sure that we are keeping up with, with what’s going on in the CBT world really.
Rachel: And a lot of my fellow members in the BABCP may have joined precisely because they wanted to become accredited, as it may have been required by their employer or training program, or as you’ve mentioned, course accreditation as part of this role as well. Or maybe it’s for self-employment purposes. So for many accreditation has become a bit synonymous with box ticking, you know, or form filling or record keeping and reference requesting. You know, it’s all about the processes and we can, we can lose sight of what accreditation is really about. So, can you break down a little bit for us what accreditation and registration are really about and why they’re important?
Rebecca Light: Absolutely, and I can really understand from a member’s perspective why that might happen and all those pressures that members are under. But I think it is really important that our members feel it’s a lot more than just a box ticking exercise. It’s really about reaching and maintaining a set of standards that really demonstrate the competence in this really vital work that people are doing. And CBT really prides itself on being that evidence-based approach and I think that we as therapists need to take that approach to our work as well. And part of accreditation is registration is about having some form of evidencing of why we are able to do the work we’re doing and how we are maintaining that as well. So, so really important, and I think this comes up a lot for the live requirements that we have for both our wellbeing registrants and our accredited CBT practitioners. Lots of people question that or find it difficult to achieve for various reasons. And I think. You know, actually that evidence-based approach to that is really important, and I’d be really keen for members to really think about how do we know if we’re doing a good job? And accreditation is a really important part of that. It’s also about engaging with the organization accreditation and making sure that you’re staying up to date with the latest ways forward and best practice as well. So hopefully members will see the benefits of accreditation in that way as well.
Rachel: because it, it’s really easy, isn’t it, to let that slide, you get so busy and involved and what you’re doing works busy for, for all of our members, they work so hard and give so much to their work and it’s easy for, for CPD to slip or to kind of rest in your laurels of what you’ve learned or trained in the past, isn’t it? To have that extra kind of push that extra reason, if you like to, to keep up to date, to keep learning, to keep stretching yourself and I guess for many, actually that’s helpful with their employers as well, to be able to say, look, I have to do this to keep my registration apparent.
Rebecca Light: Absolutely. And we get that a lot from our members of sort of questions about, this is the stance my employer’s taking. And hopefully we can provide really helpful concrete answers about what the requirements are and also what some of the exceptions to those are, or how we can support our members with different ways of meeting those requirements in quite a flexible way so that it does help drive up those standard and make sure that it’s delivered in the best possible way.
Rachel: Protecting the public as well.
Rebecca Light: Absolutely. Yeah.
Rachel: So what are the different types of accreditation or registration that BABCP confers then?
Rebecca Light: So first of all, we do have course accreditation, which I think is really important to mention. So that is becoming, as I said earlier, one of our biggest routes to individuals becoming accredited is, is via our level Two or level one accredited courses. So a level two course means that graduates from that course will have met all of the requirements for to become a CBT accredited CBT practitioner and can go onto our register with a very simple, straightforward application. With level one accredited courses they’ve met the quality, but maybe there’s an element missing in terms of quantity. So perhaps they’ve not completed all the required case studies or all of the hours of teaching that they need to meet those standards, so then they can top those up and, and get, again, apply for accreditation. Outside of the course accreditation, we then have an individual route to accreditation for CBT practitioners where they need to demonstrate all of the ways that they’ve met our minimum training standards.
Rebecca Light: And so that’s kind of the three routes that you can get onto the CBT register as an accredited CBT therapist. We also then have the Evidence-Based Parent Trainers which are a much smaller group, but really important group of practitioners who have a CBT component to their training, but also a social learning theory-based element, which is specifically around parent training.
Rebecca Light: So that’s, that’s really useful. Then we have our wellbeing registrations, and we’ve got the PWPs, the Psychological Wellbeing Practitioners, the CWP’s, which are the Children’s Wellbeing Practitioners and the EMHP’s which are the Education Mental Health Practitioners. And shortly we will be opening our register to the Mental Health Wellbeing Practitioners as well. So the MHWPs, so we almost got all of the letters of the alphabet.
Rachel: Can we, can we get any more acronyms in there that that’s what we’ll just have to start inventing some, won’t we?
Rebecca Light: And then last but not least, we do have a very small area that we’re trying to develop and we’re thinking about how we can take this forward in relation to sort of post qualification trainings as well. So at the moment, we’ve only got the couples therapy training, so it’s behavioural couples therapy. We’ve got only one course where this is a sort of post qualification. You need to have met the requirements to be a CBT accredited therapist before doing this training, but we’re really keen to think about what other trainings are there, where this could be recognized as a post qualification specific training. So that’s a real area for future development for BABCP.
Rachel: Brilliant. So lots going on. It’s not, obviously not standing still. Your job is obviously not dull. Can you tell us a little bit [00:13:00] about the difference between, you’ve mentioned registers and you’ve mentioned accreditation. What’s the difference between accreditation and registration?
Rebecca Light: It’s really confusing language sometimes, and I think it’s been made possibly more confusing with us now being an accredited register with the PSA as well.
Rachel: So PSA for people who don’t know
Rebecca Light: Oh my goodness. The, uh, professional Standards Authority, fumbling over my words there, Rachel. So the Professional Standards Authority accredited our register a couple of years ago, and it now means that anyone who appears on our register is a registrant with us. So that includes people who are accredited, but also people who are registered as wellbeing practitioners. So everyone’s a registrant and everyone is on our register. So that’s sort of added to some of the confusion around language recently. But essentially the difference between registration and accreditation is that we wanted to make sure that there was a distinction between these two professions and vocations, if you like. So the wellbeing practitioners’ part of their registration requirements are about where they work. So in order to be registered, it is important that they have a set system of practice, which is, is set out as part of the job role. This is because their training is different and therefore it’s important that part of that work has very specific step up, step down areas, very specific supervision arrangements and case management arrangements. That’s quite different to the accreditation for CBT therapists who can work more autonomously and perhaps in private practice and independently of those set structures of systems of care. So that’s the two different main emphasis really, that we have is that accreditation is for our CBT psychotherapists and then we have registration for our wellbeing practitioners.
Rachel: So it sounds like registration is really important to acknowledge the tremendous skills of that workforce as well as giving it that sort of quality standard and assurance.But there are also safeguards within that process that someone looking, for example, for a CBT practitioner wouldn’t mistake someone who’s registered with the BABCP as someone who is accredited as a CBT practitioner, is that right?
Rebecca Light: Absolutely. Yeah. And also so that people who are receiving, services from wellbeing practitioners or CBT therapists can really know that they’ve met the standards to deliver the type of work that that job title would suggest that they would be doing so if someone’s receiving services for wellbeing practitioner, we’ve got really clear information about what that work would look like. And then we have that again for accredited CBT practitioners.
Rachel: So, Rebecca, we’ve talked about course accreditation there and individual accreditation, different types of practitioner accreditation, but I know there’s also a couple of other types of accreditation supervisor and trainer. Is that right?
Rebecca Light: That’s right, yeah. So once you’ve had accreditation as a CBT accredited practitioner for four years, then you are able to apply for supervisor or trainer accreditation or both, which demonstrates that more in depth level of training and experience in those specific areas. And we find often people teaching on courses, they are keen to have the trainer accreditation because it just demonstrates that extra level of training knowledge and experience in training other CBT therapists. And the supervisor training we find people really aspire to that and it helps other therapists know that that person has additional skills in that area Should they be looking for a supervisor as well. Although it’s Important to say that neither of those accreditations are actually essential for providing supervision or training in CBT, but it does just really denote that extra experience and skill.
Rachel: So it’s a kite mark rather than a requirement.
Rebecca Light: Absolutely. Yeah.
Rachel: So you are describing this brilliantly, Rebecca, and so clearly, but I can hear there’s a lot of complexity in this and I’m guessing there have probably been some challenges along the way. And I’m wondering what issues you’ve come across or had to engage with that have presented significant challenges for you whilst you’ve been in this role.
Rebecca Light: Absolutely. It is complicated sometimes. I think some of the biggest challenges have been around making sure that what works for perhaps the big organizations like NHS England also works for us as an organization in line with the what the professional standards authority think works well and also what works for our members, alongside what works for the public, because I think we need to have all of those different viewpoints in mind, and sometimes they aren’t necessarily the same. Things that are beneficial for our members are the things that are beneficial, for example, for the NHS England or for the public. So those are some of the biggest challenges, is juggling those different demands.
Rachel: So it’s different stakeholders having different ideas about what would be useful. And you’re kind of the fulcrum of that trying to figure it out for the best interest of the members and, and the public.
Rebecca Light: Yes, definitely. I think some of the other challenges of some of the things that would probably be echoed through NHS work or through any other big organization is things like the IT system that we’ve been trying to launch. It’s been interesting. It’s been challenging, and I think it’s highlighted just how complex some of our processes are, and necessarily complex, I think. But it’s been really challenging to try and make sure that we’ve captured all of that through what we hope will be a really useful benefit for members to be able to apply and have their applications assessed via an online application versus perhaps the old paper systems that we’ve grown very used to. I think the other challenges has been the latest launch of the minimum training standards and the changes that came with those, and I think that that’s obviously brought that tension to the fore as well of what we think is best in terms of best practice and evidence base for what makes a good CBT therapist with perhaps people’s own experiences of training and making sure that we’re trying to be inclusive, but also holding those standards as well.
Rachel: So it’s holding that, setting a clear standard that is also inclusive, flexible enough. And I know we spend a lot of time talking in the course accreditation committee around these very issues. You know, we want clarity because these are standards that everyone has to adhere to. But also life and work is complicated and messy. And as soon as you test stress, test any of these rules, there are always exceptions that they’re thinking about, aren’t there?
Rebecca Light: Definitely. And it’s the unforeseen sort of implications sometimes of change or updates and you know we rely on our members to tell us about those things and help bring that to the fore. So we definitely want to be told when there’s a problem. Sometimes the answer isn’t always obvious.
Rachel: So those are some of the challenges. What have been the most exciting or interesting developments you think you’ve been involved in the role?
Rebecca Light: I think one of the things that’s coming in the future is an apprenticeship scheme for CBT therapists. So being involved in that has been a really interesting process. It’s really highlighted how we can break down the competencies of CBT therapists for the apprenticeship process and, and that’s been fascinating. The other thing is around the growth of our KSA applicants. I think it’s been really exciting to see how we bring on other backgrounds into the profession, and I think the growth of the Talking Therapies services would not have happened if we as an organization didn’t offer that alternative route in to CBT careers. I think one of the things we’ve seen in accreditation is the variance within the KSAs that, that we assess. And so reviewing that and getting that ready to take to consultation with our members for an update in the next year or so is a really exciting development as well of just trying to provide better clarity to people about what they need to do to equip themselves in this profession if they haven’t got a core profession. So that’s another really exciting area.
Rachel: Because it brings people we need into the profession. I guess in terms of the profession becoming, or the professions, I should say becoming much more representative of the people we serve, the people we look after in, in clinical practice.
Rebecca Light: Yeah, and you know, KSA is now our biggest group of applicants. So it’s really interesting and like I say, the variety within those applications that we see is amazing and it brings such a lot of wealth to the organization and to the profession in terms of experiences and backgrounds.
Rachel: So that sounds like, you know, lots of things are happening in the future and lots of growth and development. Are there other things you are looking forward to or, or foreseeing in the future in terms of high accreditation might change and develop?
Rebecca Light: Yeah, I think we are seeing that reduction in the number of people who are doing non-accredited courses, and I think that’s likely to continue, and especially as we’ve seen such growth in the number of accredited courses available. Our biggest thing around developing that in the future I think, is to try and look to all five nations and make sure that we are supporting the growth of accredited courses across the nations and making sure that people have easier access to those accredited courses where we can including via the apprenticeship route if possible. And by doing so, I think what we’ll probably see in the future is perhaps a different way of individuals applying if they’ve not done an accredited course. So potentially that becoming a much more niche area, as we really strive to say, the best way to get accredited is to do an accredited course.
Rachel: Brilliant. So it’s, it’s moving with the times, the developments that are happening out there, but also not kind of shutting down a pathway for people who may want to come through that individual route.
Rebecca Light: Absolutely, and we know that there’s lots of people who come to accreditation having trained a long time ago, and so of course we, we wouldn’t want to exclude those either.
Rachel: And having done the role for a while now and, you know, having that kind of sense of the, the past, present and future, is there, is there a message you’d like to give to folk in their BABCP about accreditation? Anything you’d like to encourage people with around accreditation?
Rebecca Light: I think the main thing is that we’re working really hard and we know the frustrations that come with accreditation and perhaps the delays and the way that things perhaps have taken longer than we hoped. But really that we are working really hard and we do want things to be more streamlined and that we are really open to suggestions and contact from members and we will help members wherever we can because the best way to support CBT in practice is I think, through accreditation and ensuring that people are meeting those standards. And if there’s anything that we can do in the accreditation team that helps people to get onto the register, we can then support them to maintain really high standards of practice, supervision and continuing professional development. And so please do reach out to us if you, if you want to get accredited and you’re struggling in any way. It’s really important that we know what those struggles are so that we can identify how to support people with that process
Rachel: So stick with it. It’s worth it, and you’re there to help. And Rebecca, I’ve been asking everyone in this series as we’ve been going through and meeting various people from the team about their own tips for good mental health. Now you’re a busy mum, you know, you’re on a working farm, you’re a therapist yourself outside of being Chief Registrar, how do you keep it together? What’s your personal top tip for good mental health?
Rebecca Light: Good question. As I said at the start, I’m a really big advocate for a bit of vitamin G, so that kind of green space vitamin of just being outside, connecting with nature. And I just think if ever I’m having a stressful day or something’s not quite going, according to plan or the kids are driving me mad. I just get outside and somehow that makes things feel a lot more manageable, so yeah. I’d advocate getting outside as much as possible.
Rachel: Fantastic. Brilliant. Well, Rebecca, thank you so much for spending time with us today. It’s really lovely to, to meet you properly or I guess with the members to meet you. And thank you so much for all the hard work you do in this really important area.
Rebecca Light: Thank you, Rachel.
Steph: Welcome to our Spotlight on Sessions. This is the part of the podcast where we aim to spotlight a branch of special interest group, or a particular area of BABCP that we would like our members to know a bit more about. Today I’m delighted to be joined by Amy Beddows and Mat Wilding from the WomGend SIG to talk all about the SIG and what they do.
Steph: So, hello both welcome. So would you both like to introduce yourself?
Amy: I’m Amy Beddows. I’m an accredited CBT therapist, with special interest working with trauma, particularly survivors of gender-based violence. I work in university counselling services as well as private practice, and I have a PhD in women’s experiences of victim blame, which did include some of their experiences with counselling and CBT. So I’m very interested in how gender inequality and gendered violence comes into CBT practice.
Mat: I’m Mat Wilding. I’m an accredited CBT therapist, been qualified a few years now, but worked as a mental health nurse for about seven years. Prior to that, I’ve worked in lots of different areas, inpatient, adult community, youth, and children’s services. I originally wrote my mental health nursing dissertation on male mental health seeking behaviour. That was kind of what started a lot of my interest in how the gender inequality in mental health actually has progressed over the years and has kind of shone a light on how unfair it can be to both men and women. And one of my friends who was in the WomGend SIG asked me if I could join them and come along to some of the meetings. And so. I’m starting to do that now.
Steph: Brilliant. Thank you so much guys. I think that leads me really nicely into the next question, which is can you tell me a bit about the SIG, who you are, what you do?
Amy: We are interested in representing all genders, as Mat said, men as well as women and people from gender minorities, and looking at how all aspects really of gender and gender equality can come into healthcare and into therapy. We look to raise awareness around discrimination and inequalities, as well as looking at providing training and information around these sorts of issues, not just for clients, but for therapists as well, because of course, gendered issues are not just restricted to the folks we help, and we see this as a really key part of wellbeing and a key consideration for moving towards a more just an equal world.
Steph: Brilliant. So, how does the SIG work?
Amy: So we have quite a small committee. There’s about 10 of us. I’m on the committee. I’m the Co White Ribbon lead and I can mention white ribbon a little bit, but we as a committee, we meet every three months or so to plan out what we’re going to look at what kind of outputs what kind of areas we want to focus on. We’ve got our AGM coming up on the 15th of October, so that’s open to all members and a couple of us are going to be at the EABCT conference in September in Glasgow, presenting on gender inequalities in healthcare and the role that CBT can play in supporting clients. So hopefully we’ll see some folks there as well.
Steph: Yeah, the conference is going to be really good this year. We’re really looking forward to that. That sounds like it’s going to be awesome. So are there any challenges that you face as a SIG or in fact, any opportunities that you’re able to pursue?
Amy: I guess one that Mat and I have discussed before is, is about, I’d say quite frankly, recruiting men. I think that’s a big one of the challenges we face as, as you said Mat, you know, men’s mental health is such an important part of this and I think sometimes particularly with our SIG being called WOMGEND, people think it’s perhaps more about women or gender minorities, but actually we are really looking to recruit men and um, look at the issues around men’s mental health as well.
Mat: Yeah. We spoke a bit about how sometimes as a man thinking that actually joining something like that might not be our place. It might be seen as us like invading on a female space or a gender minority space when actually it’s really important for men to be standing up for equal gender rights across the board and actually encouraging us to come in so we can actually listen, be a part of, and help shape, shape the change for other male therapists and, and men in general that we work with as well.
Steph: So what’s going on for the SIG right now? What are you guys looking at working on?
Amy: So at the moment we’ve been focusing quite a bit on sort of training opportunities. One of our menopause leads, Sally ran a very successful menopause symptoms and CBT session at the end of last year. We’ve run sessions on coercive control and victim blaming. So we’re looking at that side of things but also writing articles. We’ve had a few our House of WomGend newsletter that comes out several times a year. A couple of us have written pieces for CBT today around gendered issues. So we’re looking at that side of things, but also we’re hoping to be a bit more collaborative. So a couple of us are part of the Men’s Mental Health Good Practice Guide Working Group with the BABCP. We’re looking to link in with other SIGs to do some more collaborative stuff to really highlight the intersectionality of gender inequality as well. And we’ll be arranging some events and putting out some materials for the 16 days of activism that happens in November. So hopefully folks can keep an eye for that. But a, a big part of our work as well, we’ve managed to lobby the BABCP to sign up to the White Ribbon Movement, which is an organization that encourages men to stand and be allies against men’s violence against women and girls. And so we’re looking at ways of kind of incorporating that into CBT and, and helping people understand what it is what it does. And as you were saying, Matt, you know, get men’s voices and men’s experiences on board as well cause that’s such a key part of it.
Mat: I really like the White Ribbon stuff because it kind of helps back you up as a man as well. So like not even doing therapy and things like that, but thinking about, you know, when you are with your male friends and listening to what people say and being able to challenge and stand up for people who might make things that might seem like jokes but actually kind of inappropriate when you stop and think about them. And I know like experiences when I’ve been younger as well, not sort of saying stuff when I felt uncomfortable with jokes that people were making and actually that being a really difficult thing to manage, but actually having all of that backup and having something like the White Ribbon to reinforce you as a person, not just your practice is, is a really supportive and really nice thing to have there.
Steph: And it sounds like this SIG is a really nice space and a nice, safe space for you to kind of explore that then and to feel like you can, I guess, talk about these things.
Amy: It’s definitely something we strive to be. I think these can be quite challenging issues to talk about. And, and as you’re saying that sometimes I think it, it can be hard for, for men to feel there is a space for them in these conversations. But we’re also very aware when we’re talking about gender-based violence, whether that’s sexual abuse, childhood abuse, domestic violence, huge numbers of men are also victims of this. And it’s, it’s more complicated than sometimes the gendered narratives around it suggests. So we are really wanting it to be as inclusive and supportive as space as possible so that everyone feels they can come along to meetings, engage with our work, come to our sessions, but also share their experiences. We’ve always got new things on the horizon. We’re kind of currently in conversations around setting up some training around endometriosis and pelvic pain. We’re also looking at the women in leadership, but as I say, we’re also then looking at this Men’s Mental Health Practice Guide. So we’re really keen to engage with um, as many BABCP members who’d be willing to come along and share topics we could look at next really cause there’s so much to this we could be exploring.
Mat: I think doing that in a, in the sort of SIG, in the, the slightly more informal way as well is a lot more helpful because you can go out and you can do like the training and you can do it sort of in that formalized way, but you know, it’s not knowledge that you’ve got from someone, as it were, if that makes sense. But trying to work with female clients who talk about, like, you know, struggles in the menstrual cycle or who might have endometriosis and stuff like that. I don’t have an expertise in that. I know some things because I’ve read around it and I’ve had friends who’ve had certain issues, so I can offer some guidance and some understanding, but certain male colleagues may not have that level of experience or might not feel as comfortable in talking about that as well. I know me and Amy have spoken in the past as well, how having male friends who don’t even like to talk about sort of women’s troubles, inverted commas as it as it might be discussed, but actually, you know, it’s 51% of the population, just having a very basic knowledge can really age your practice and actually benefit someone who might be really struggling with, you know, a physical health condition that affects their mental health as well.
Steph: So is there anything that you’d like to say to anyone who might be thinking of joining the SIG? Amy, you’ve said some really lovely things and really good words of encouragement, but anything else you’d like to add?
Amy: I guess just to extend an invitation to have a little look at our webpage on, on the SIG branches section of the BABCP. There’s some information on White Ribbon, but that’s also a great place, as Mat said, to, to start looking at some of these issues in, in different ways, but just come along, you know, if, if you’re interested. As I say, we try and be a very friendly bunch, and it’s a very welcoming space. That my experience of the SIG and that’s definitely what we strive to provide. So if you are interested, sign up, come along to one of our AGMs, look for us in newsletters and CBT Today. And yeah, if you’re going to be at the conference in September, please do come and stop by and say hi. We’re going to try and make ourselves known, but if in doubt we’ll probably be wearing the white ribbons, a little sort of, um, white ribbon symbol. But yeah, just get in touch please.
Steph: Okay. That all sounds great. Well guys, thank you so much for coming to join me today and talking about the SIG. So we really recommend that people come and look you up and go join if it sounds like something they’d be interested in. Thank you so much.
Rachel: So now we return to Ask Me Anything. This is where we get to hear from you, Helen, as you pop your Senior Clinical Advisor hat on and wait with bated breath as to what’s going to be thrown at you. And the, the question from the bottom of our mailbag this month is a question about questions, in fact. So what questions do you get that fall outside the scope of the BABCP’s remit?
Helen: Oh, that’s interesting. Well, firstly, I guess I should say that most of the questions we we’d get do fall within the scope of BABCP’s remit, but the kind of things where it isn’t so much BABCP’s remit are things that fall outside our charitable aims that aren’t part of our strategy or not consistent with our memorandum and articles of association. So some themes are sometimes members would very much like us to be more like a union rather than a professional membership organization. And of course, as the charity we don’t have those functions of representing our members in the way that a union would do. So that’s one area where sometimes members sort of express the desire that we could do more of that. And it’s just not in our remit. And I guess the other main area where we have questions, and these come up from time to time, is that we should be a campaigning organization. While our remit is very much to promote mental health evidence-based CBT, we can’t campaign politically and it can be really tough sometimes to walk a line where we are genuinely advocating for evidence-based CBT and can see the impact that events in the world are having on people’s mental health without straying into what would be viewed as party political in nature. So we have to walk a line that makes sure that what we are promoting and advocating for really does fall within our charitable aims
Rachel: and Helen to help people understand, what’s the, what’s the reasoning behind that? Why can’t the BABCP campaign politically, what’s the barrier?
Helen: Well, it’s very much the way that we are set up as a professional membership organization. Our aims are specific to promoting CBT, protecting the public, and as part of that, it would be frowned upon by the Charities Commission if we strayed away from what we say our aims are. And we do have regular discussions about how do we genuinely support our members and advocate for people who need high quality healthcare without it being seen as party political in nature.
Rachel: Yeah. And of course we’ll have members from hopefully from all across the spectrum of political opinion because that’s healthy and reflects our population.
Helen: Yes, absolutely. And with more than 24,000 members in the association, there is going to be a vast range of views and people are going to feel passionately about certain issues and quite rightly so. And as I say, it just means that our remit as an organization is to. Really make sure that we are focusing on what our charitable aims are. And I think that sometimes it’s very hard to get that absolutely right. And we do rely on our members to give us feedback if we haven’t done that as well as we wanted to.
Rachel: And I guess if we’re supporting research and promoting research and evidence-based practice, we’re also supporting our members and equipping them to campaign where they want to and need to and to address those issues both in individual places with patients, but also on a wider scale should they wish to?
Helen: Yes, absolutely. And all our members have to bear in mind is that they are signed up to our Standards of Conduct, Performance And Ethics. And if they do those campaigns respectfully and within the expectations of those professional standards, then this is all appropriate.
Rachel: So key areas then, we’re not a union. We’re not a campaigning organization. Mm-hmm. Although we recognize and cherish the fact that many of our members have strong and, and important views on those And that, that it’s consistent with lots of their evidence-based practice and research that we promote.
Helen: Yeah. And really making sure that everything we do is really in line with our values.
Rachel: Any other questions that come your way?
Helen: Oh, well there’s, there’s lots of questions that do, that do come my way, but I’m going to keep my powder dry for the next edition and share another question with you that comes out the mailbox.
Rachel: Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for answering that question. Remember folks, if you want to take part in ask me anything, please do email us at podcasts@babcp.com. We’ll also put the email to get in touch in the episode notes, so please do get in touch. So before we go, Helen, what’s happening on the Let’s Talk podcast?
Helen: Well, our most recent episode is me speaking with Tafi, who’s originally from Zimbabwe and currently in South Africa. But while he was living in London and working in London, he accessed CBT and he then realized just how much his own business skills and his, his skills in, in creating apps could be used to assist people in areas where it’s hard to access CBT. And so he and his friend Sherrie, who’s a CBT therapist, put together an app that’s called Bimbo based on his lived experience of what was helpful in a low intensity CBT setting and accessing remote opportunities to receive evidence-based care. And they designed the app very much for the context of where people have low access to data, which is very much the case on a lot of the African continent, that people have mobile phones but don’t have access to much data. And this app supports people to do CBT, to receive CBT prompts and coaching via a very low data app. It’s really interesting talking to them and it’s the first time that I’ve been speaking to two people on different continents when I was in a third continent myself while we had the conversation.
Rachel: Wow. It sounds like a brilliant example of co-production and dissemination of therapy, but also culturally adapted and culturally sensitive sounds.
Helen: Absolutely. Yes. And talking of having conversations internationally, tell us about Practice Matters.
Rachel: A highlight for me was speaking directly to Judy Beck in Philadelphia. Some might construe as the headquarters of CBT, um, of course, where Tim Beck started the, the field off and talking to her about CBT through the years and new developments in recovery oriented CBT. So Judy was very gracious to spend lots of time sharing her insights and experience with us, and that episode should be out in the next month or two, and we really look forward to sharing that with you.
Rachel: That’s about it for today. So all that remains to be said, as always, as a huge thank you for listening to Members Matters and all that you do to make the BABCP a great organization to be part of. We’ll be back again next month with more BABCP news and updates, and until then, it’s bye from me.
